Dear Kim

One of the worst ones

Wed, 21 May 2008 13:06:37 +1000

Hi is Tracey here, am having so much trouble trying to use my computor, an am so sick with all the hurt is hard2concentrate. Thankyou so much for your book, which has helped greatly.

I'll start by sayin i met one of the worst one's. He's much better now, thanks to my stubborness an honesty or i think i'd be dead by now. I never got the nice, not even at the start. Drunk and cocaine, meth an bad lifesyle, and no1had any idea what he was like. An the 1st time i went to his house was when i worked out the hardway that i should've trusted my instincts, but too late. I still don't no what extent of bad he is, but no the possibilities. I was afraid back then that id find myself dumpd in a river(and still not sure). I think he's more along lines of Psycopath, but geting better. Have lost all my friends just about, an hardly see my family, but that's the least of my problems. Hav had many complete nervous breakdowns, unable to move like catatonic, but thank god am bit better now. He's happily left many times to see his friends because he can't handle the deppression i have(due to him), an wouldn't care if i died. I don't no if he's gotton better or better at acting still. He is just a 2 year old, with big problems. He's admitted he hates me, and the whole world. And of course that it's all my fault. I do care about him greatly, but it's taken a big toll. I got him to want to stop drinking etc(barely), got him to an A.D.D doctor, (all about 6 months after knowing him). He broke his foot badly a couple months ago (drugs an paranoid dellusions) which helped him see for himself that all i'd told him was true. He sleeps around, whenever he can or thinks he can, but gets angry that i won't sleep with him because i don't want to catch diseases, an goes off because he rekons he told me the only time he made a mistake an that i'm just paranoid. Well i know i'm not, but i can't prove that to him. I talked to the cop shop, an she said that court won't push through an in home restraining order, which i haf 2 persue still.

I have in writing from him stating what hes done an what he 'was' like before and many texts on my phone. I just don't really no what to do about it, to much to do no time for myself. Got daycare back for my son, which has helped a little, but how do i get him to stop lying an blaming me for everythink. And what do i do when i don't want to catch diseases from him, he stays at my house most of the time, but not always, i don't know his mates hardly at all, an he lies about absolutely everythink. Am afraid he is a rapist etc. He hapily took advantage of me for a year without permission, an finally out loud in front of me talked to me or himself saying no its not right to do anythink with me if i don't want to. Finally he stopped doing it. My life is living hell, but i'm getting better bit by bit. Is incredibly hard after a year an half thrown in the deep end. And he (the N) nows how to use my computor better than i do, which isnt so good. Have started taking the fish oil etc an trying to get out of debt again. He's starting to get help, (or i'm making him) but is bad still. I was up 3 nights in a row from him being paranoid and dellusions, people out front, back, etc. well ended up back at hospital again for olanzapine, that stops the voices, but doesn't help when they let him out without taking them. Lukily i went to his house where he's meant to live and when he took them it didnt help so made him take more then finally when he slept i went home an got sleep. Its not so good with a just turned 3yr old. At least he wasn't blaming me as much instead just scared. I think the dellusions are caused mostly from his guilt, an past, an i don't really know how to get him to trust me, seems impossible. Am doing my best with what i have left in life he hasn't taken or destroyed. he's at the clinic an moment geting blood tested for diseases etc. He's had an EEG, results next week, an started anga management, hard to get him to keep going. told him when i kick him out he's allowed back after we both chillout. That made him happier. Went to one of his friends house an told him what was wrong with him, but hard when he's filled everyones head with lies constantly. And he's still lying to me,he doesn't trust anyone, anythink, an is still nasty an verbally control friek. Well that's just an extremely short version, i'm sure you can imagine the rest, just times that by a million. Do you think that having sex with him lots would stop him going elseware, i don't want disease, but don't want him thinking i go elsewhere (last dam thing on my mind), an don't want to push him away either. I do no that he doesn't even think of being careful tho, he wouldn't consider it for a second. And any handy tips u can think of would be great. Only time he's even nice to me is when everythink is going his way, i mean EVERYTHINK down to the cup he uses. Always sarcastic, an obnoxious, an thinks his lies make sense,doesn't care if they don't. Is all bad. I'm trying to get on with my life (as always) but am so desperate for some or any peace of mind i hyper focus an can't enjoy myself anywhere doing anythink. Can't read a book, can only just make myself sit through a movie for his sake. And so sikv no one knowing what i'm talking about, (is why i don't bother anymore with people either), not worth having to defend myself, just disheartens me more. And at moment a mate changed my computor around, an i can't access anything (still don't know what i'm doing) just found my mail again, so that's all I have to link me anywhere. And didn't no how to write to dear kim thing,so why i'm replying here. Although i know it's going to be another thing he'll read but oh well to bad. I'm too honest for my own good, and completely useless at lying! Wish you well on your success, i an intending to travel to America when he's well or gone to help others myself. Was going to before i met him, but that's all on hold for now. I grew up with my dad being a N as well, took it out on me though, an he's better now. My sisters boyfriend was as well, an is better too. My ex was, an is better now, all thanks to me an my stubborn nature. Taurus. An i won't put up with crap, i just seem to attract it tho.. The way it is from child hood etc. I been studying brain physics, chemistry for ages now, well all my life i guess just last year reading up a lot more,(always after i learn things the hard way ha ha)There's a sight on net sumwhere about holosync, one being expensive, but look around enuf and theres better versions cheaper, which is really good for the brain functions. I havent been able to get one yet, but when i do i'll let u know the links, might be good for others.(All my life helped people((mostly friends)) with scitzfrenia etc an got them well), its just hard to help myself under stress!! Thankyou again for all your help, God Bless you an Steve for being achievers!!!

Tracey

Hi Tracey,

Hey good for you for being such a caring person.

I would try again with the police and don't say anything about
you two fighting, just about the intimidation and maybe some of his illegal activities. I would also ask them what help is available for him to do some kind of program to get off the drugs and get a mental assessment. Tell them that you will stand by him and make sure that he does it but that if they can't support you somehow he will end up on the streets and turning to crime. Let them know that you have helped other people get on their feet. Don't talk about narcissism though! Talk about his delusions and say that you think he is schizophrenic (they are more likely to help). Ask about what ever services are available to support you. Do not be proud, get all the help that you can!

You also need to take care of yourself. Have you seen the updated guide? You can access it here

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I have written more about magic scissors, even if you have seen it it won't hurt to read it again. I think that you would also benefit from doing the gap finder and filling the gap exercises for yourself and also getting a Simpleology account (search for it through Google) you need to take time for yourself everyday.

I wonder what country you live in Tracey? Is there any free counseling service? It would be great if you could start building yourself a support team, not just for him but also for yourself.

I don't think that you should have sex with him if you are scared of diseases, it is not worth the risk keep working on the points in the guide and maybe down the line when you feel that you can trust him better and he has had test done that might feel right, but I would wait until then.

Can you get him to take some fish oil too? That and a multi B and good multi mineral might help him feel a bit more together. I would do the multi B three times a day if he can. Tell him that it will help the bad side affects of the drugs he takes (it will). The fish oil (6 to 8 a day) might help him a real lot too.

I will look up a holosync it sounds interesting.

You take Care,

KIm

Hi Kim,

Cheers for your reply,it is good to know in the world people know how u feel in times such as these. I'm in S.A.

Last night had to call cops again, he left dellusional, driving around hearing things, again. It is really hard. Have been to Hosp many times an they don't seem to get the severity of him. Have tried to tell them, over and over. Even he wanted to stay there an asked if there was sumwhere he could sleep there, but they are useless. At xxxxxx Medic Centre they didn't even read there own paper work properly when i told them he was dellusional, took them 2 days to realise he was meant to be detained and supervised and 5 shots of valium to knock him out.

Theyr'e overloaded, and him being a pathological liar doesn't help, putting on a good face to hide his own embarrasment.

I had a dam overlooked brilliant idea today though, an went and sore my local M.P., don't know how i forgot to do that, but that's been of some help. Went to cop shop again, but the dum chick that served me was useless, so i'll go back tomorrow an hope someone else is working there. Didn't want to look rude an ask for someone else, although i probably should have. She just said that when he's over to call them and if they see reason to detain him they can, but problem is he puts on a good act. Other problem is I don't lie,is against my nature to, an has kept me alive so far! I'd tell him i was calling them in which case he'd probably leave anyway. And if i did it sneakily (which I'm useless at)he'd never trust me again an undo all the work ive done anyway an put myself in more trauma than its worth.

Am getting there, so much to do and so little help, an so little money, have been paying for him for along time now, an yet othaway round he adds up the cents.

An yeah, i don't want to catch anythink, so i'll not chance it, just don't know if obstaining is making him more so being a slut etc. am paranoid that he is raping chicks, may sound extreme, but he is. And for all i know he's killing them as well, I couldn't say. My intuition runs out there, just not sure. I did get the idea from him to begin with though in a manner of his weird words..

He's been out all day an using his paranoya now as an excuse to be up to no good an not be around. Good for me in someways, get the chance to do things, but bad for me when he's around bad influences when he's in this frame of mind an gets himself more confused.

God i hope is on my side today, feeling the storm coming and its going to be a big one when it hits this time. Am more concerned he frequently talking about getting a gun more an more to protect himself so he says. Well at least if i die one day everyone is going to know why. Between all the docs, cops, hosps, friends, an net, they won't have any problem solving that!!Ha, i shouldn't joke about it, but if you can't laugh in life you cry.

Cheers for the update version of book, I like to read it regularly to drum things into my own head, a lot easier when its written. Wrapping around my head he's 2, which i knew but still confirmation makes it feel a lot better, is difficult. 36 years of knowledge in a 2 yr old mind set is not so easy. A tantrum is one big tantrum, and dolly did it is extreme. He did admit when i told his friend stuff that it was a big relief for him, but at same time as soon as we left he felt the pain come in his head again, (front tempral lobes, often use of cocaine etc has bad afta effects, {epilepsy:neurological disconetion an break down, not physcical fits, but mind ones, which leaves his all screwed up an mind thoughts scattered, no pattern, no time frames, whole life in one pot, ME, yay.} an can take days to weeks of coalating again, even months. Lukily less time now after my long year of mega hell).To tell sumone all he's ever said has been a lie the was lots of undoing he just couldn't bare to face alone. And now i know thanks to you why he so badly wanted me to meet his parents, an meet mine. I couldn't work out why when i knew he was using me and would hapily be such a bastard would still want me to meet his parents. Now i see clearer it was for security an to feel good enuf. He's so mean that part was so abstract in my head to comprehend.

I have talked to his mum, (agez ago), which was difficult. At first she tried to justify him an tell me how much he likes me an that he told her i'm paranoid he sleeps around. Well when she realised that was the least of my concerns an had nothing really even to do with it she started to listen. An then tell me how she knew other mums with similar issues with their sons. I soon realized that she was way too far past helping him apart from once a month for lunch an making him a cake. At least she knows now though what he is like if something disasterous happens and I'm no longer around. An his real dad i have to find, he was a prick too. But for his sake may be good, although i don't think he's ready yet, but it will take me that long to find him anyway.

Am hoping that i can get the court too make him go to anger mangaement councilling an groups an as u said a parenting class. Well that's the goal anyway. I don't want to be the enforcer all the time.

Have done the Gap work, got him to do it too, which when we swapped shocked him a bit when he realised my anwsers were nothing like his. And another thing i should have suggested to you which i did do long ago, was i told him i was recording him on tape, an his own curiousity made him want to hear it back at the time, an really shocked him how he sounded. A video recording works even better, but seeing himself was a big wake up call. Of course i had to cop the brunt of his bad mood afterwards, annoyed at himself, take it out on me, but it was worth every second! just caution anyone if u recommend it that their initial reaction isn't a good one so best be ready for it. Was good though, and good for the in home restraint order as well if i ever get that.

I have to go, he'll be here soon, all my thanks to you an Ill write asap, whenever that is.

Cheers!
Tracey

Hang in there Tracey,

You are doing great. Is there a drug and alcohol rehab program in your area that you could encourage him into? Saying that you will stand by him and all of that? You know he might just break down and admit that he needs help soon, especially as you seem to be pretty good at showing him that you are tough but that you also care. He must be turning to crime to finance his drugs and I think that the idea of getting caught and going to jail might be very scary for him. Don't threaten to tell the cops on him but I would tell him that jail is full of narcissists and he won't survive long in there. It might make rehab look more attractive.

Kim

This is Tracey again, I just had another thought as i was looking through your updated book, about remaining calm an collected when telling people your problems etc. I tend to do that, being sick all my life,hosp asthma, migraines, stomach, trauma etc, got an had to learn to have a backbone. By time i was capable of reaching out for more help again i was through the worst.(although to anyone els the what was left would still be incredible an shockingly the worst). When i went to see the local m.p today they told me all the things i was saying and doing wrong, which i sortv knew but have had to learn to be like over time b4 i found your web address. She said that when i go to the local health village, to go in distraught, because when i go in calm an collected that they are seeing that i can cope and that i'm sending the wrong message across (body language being 90%), so others need help more an i can manage.. And that's when they give you the less experienced in the field because they don't think you need the help as much as someone that is loosing the plot etc an must be in a worse experience an needs to be taken more seriously. And I have had that, when I went to the Syctrist he kept telling me i should stop talking about what he is doing an the help he needs instead of myself an to evaluate my own probs etc. when i went to womens place they gave me councillers that didn't know what they were talking about. When i rang all the help lines, they were as stumped as me as to what to do about my case. When i went to cop shop the chick didn't really care because I wasn't in tears an a mess an she was very book by its cover. I learnt that being female, local m.p is best to see a female first. Being a women's institute mental health etc for my help was better to (if i could) be an emotional wreck. At the cop shop is better to speak in as a general rule to a male, they get protective, arrogant about the male ur talking about, because their ego knows how to deal with these things better for a poor defensless woman etc etc, an they have much more want to help than a female. And last of all with friends (the little left) in older life females are more helpful, but not if they're pretty, men are helpful if they arn't being too big an buff etc. Big an buff, keep on side lines for when u need them, soft ones keep for interaction, female friends keep for own sounding boards and older motherly females keep for good examples an being included. For most u have to be strongly opinionated like u said about safety, can't just easily get rid of someone u care for or would be unsafe anyway even if u didn't care, but officials depends majorly on who it is your talking to an the situation. It's definately a big problem if you can't get across what your saying due to someone elses lack of listening skills, and or ability. I don't know if thats of any help, but that was my experience an it's starting to really hit home!!

All my thanks to you, you are making an incredible impact on the ripple effect around the world an i know there is way so much thanks from everyone for you!!!

Hey thanks Tracey,

You have an amazing insight into people! I really enjoyed that.
Can I post our correspondence on my blog site? It is OK if you don't want me to.

Yes I think that you are right about some people will only help
you if you are emotionally upset, but never with the police! They hate it.

I think that you really need to trust your gut instincts. What do you want to see happen. Get a picture really clear in your head. Then you can take the two year old firmly by the hand and lead the way.

I also loved your dolly did it line. You have a great personality Tracey, he is a lucky guy to have you looking out for him.

Kim

Dear Kim,

i've done nothing but walk on egg shells since the day i walked into his life. I have only had my instincts too rely on.That is the cruncher. I know i should trust my own instincts, have my prioritys in check, no where my own limits are (now) and have gotton over all of my fears except the only one left, staying with someone with no forseeable future for myself with them at all. for my daughters sake, Ino i'll be there to pick up the pieces, even if i'm not she'll have all the help in the world. My pets die, that's ok too, they are all learning emotion and experince. My hurt pain, sufering is my own, i can understand that, every one has there own. What scares me the most is no one can control anyone, anythink, living by my own natural instincts and knowledge with never much confirmation is extremely .... hard! I was the most social butterfly there ever was. I built a huge network of hundreds of EXELENT friends. All good ones after illiminating the bad. The usual 5 friends people have for me was a hundred. Even my worst enemy's to them would stand up for me if I asked, I know that. Because i only ever done best i POSSIBLY can for all of them. I'm down to 5 friends again for the best results for me him my son an life. All others i have helped an are able to succeed in them self, and cope an learn with some impact ripple effect of not depending on me anymore in there life. They've learnt they can support themself an cope an there most important final lesson in life. You have to get help when u NEED it the most, to help to learn to help yourself. An when no1els is there you have to utilize your own self knowledge to advance yourself before you are able to help others. When all else fails an everyone dies, who are you left with! Your self.

And yes I see I have to learn to be more assertive with cops. Did ask a friend sort ov if they could come with me to help me be more assertive, but am bad at inflicting myself on anyone else,(especially when they are the only excellant achievers in there own lives an don't want to burden them more than they can handli). Realising other peoples potentials of there own emotions is something i learnt early in life. Too much for anyone overloads them an i can't deal with the SELF pressure of it all. And then it's me that helps them afterwoulds anyway. I am my own work in progress.

I looked up selfless an to my own shock got buddist beliefs similar to my own. I also kept thinking i was an "Inverted N" but realised soon enuf that was all subconcious an in the past i was. Have tendencies like everyone else, but not the real effect anymore. I've accepted that if i loose the child i'm trying to help it isn't my fault, he is a really big baby. I'm scared for him but sometimes you have to learn to let them use their own too feet. At one stage I felt he was ready i tested the theory an told him i'd do what i want with whom i like, an after all he'd done why would i feel guilt. His response was at first "I knew it bla bla" then was "i know you wouldn't do that"(but reassure me) and then was "I don't beleive you". The next time (long months later) I tried again, my only lies ever comitted an told him so afterwoulds it was for his benefit not mine (always wanted to hurt him back in some ways but knew i knew better and couldn't allow myself too), the next time tho he was a bit too confident. And the last time i told him i wish i could feel that way an be that way just so I could tell him I did, so he did feel hurt an knew how it felt, but still wouldn't undemine myself to be that way because it wouldn't make me happy and I'd not enjoy it anyway just to get him back I wouldn't lower myself to that level of thinking, why would I. If I didn't want him and he pissed me off i'd tell him so, that's what he deserved anyway, from most that's what he would get. I'm not ashamed of myself, what i do an would proudly tell him anything,(which i would am not stupid an do not think wrong of my own feelings, mistakes, floors of emotions, I am human!!) Well of course that caused many paranoid convincing an arguments, but being so honest he has never been able to pick a flaw in my logic which he has none of. So trust he wants to have in me, but is so scared it will backfire on himself. If he tells me what he's like he thinks that will give me reason to get him back, because that's what he would do. I tell him i'm nothing like his outside ego, glad i'm not, wouldn't be that way if i was offerd the world because that wouldn't make me happy. Have also told him that i could easily be a millionare, but am not interested in the money, which i'm not. Everyone wants to feel stable in life but for me i have to feel i don't need nothing for that. I don't like having something not well worked for, and (the letter ended there)

You hang in there Tracey, you are a
very important person in the world right now, and
I know that you know that.

Kim

Dear Kim

Yay another breakthrough finally, went back to Hospital again and finally got heard. All day an me just about ready to kill the doctors i got listened too. He's in the hosp ward at moment, got to go back in the morning doctors going to asses him again for the millionth time but he'll hopefully get put in the mental section to stay there an get some proper treatment an assesment and get the right medication he needs at the moment. The other medication just wasn't working. He's scared to death at the moment, an probably planning escape already but told the nurses so hopefully they'll keep him there, an his car's at my house so at least i know if he goes anywhere he has to come back here first. Along week of tears and arguments an abuse but finally getting somewhere, i think!!! It was a case of making certain the doctors knew i pretty much wasn't leaving until he got some help, was hard enuf to get him to go in the first place, an after being there so many times an waiting i knew that i'd probably blow any chance of ever getting him back there again after waiting so long today (my kid, him and my nephew al bored, as well as me), so that was fun...So i was extremely insistant and told them how unsafe we both felt an how last time they let him out that i didn't think i'd see him again the way he was, so dellusional etc, and if not him someone else may have died. They kept up trying to up his medication an let him out in which i kept insisting that he may look calm here but they arn't the ones coping when he leaves and i don't have a majic wand an i'm sick of calling the cops an all the trauma for all of us all the time and if they don't do something i'm going to have to go in there myself for help. So i'm praying to God that all goes well this time. I'll be going there first thing in the morning to make certain they do their jobs properly. Even he told them he looks calm but isn't. He's at his witsend to trying to cope. Am complaining to the local m.p. about the mental health system too, it's not good enuf after 15 months of close enuf begging for their help they finally take notice under just about force after everyone's lives are almost ruined or non existant. Am going to the local women's centre again tomorrow, for help for me. While he's safe i get the chance for myself for a change, an hopefully a good nites sleep for once!! The other thing i'm trying to find is somewhere that does polygraph testing cheap. Have found one place in Adelaide have to pay up front about $800.00 an wait two weeks, then obviously have to go or it's a lot of money to loose, an it's a bit hard to rely on a big kid. My reason being if i take one and he realises that i'm not doing anythink apart from all i've ever said that he might feel alot better about trusting me more. Deep down he does, have proven myself, but the one percent doubt he has weighs heavily on him, 100% paranoya in that 1% doubt. So would be great to relieve that worry for him and the abuse for me. Not sure he's ready to do one although he insists he is, I think that's all talk, and again big waste of money for an excuse when the time comes. So i think I'll just do mine 1st. I know he wants to face his fears, but is too scared i'll want to get him back or will leave him, an is too much for him. Even though when he finally told me once (6 months or so)of some things he did wrong, an i didn't react but was thankful of his honesty etc, It just made him paranoid that because of that i'd probably have done somethink since, an as always tried to get me to "admit anythink" bla bla. So if u no of any where cheap for that please let me know. I got lots of information that would probably be useful for you, just getting it all together is another story at the moment for my head is too overloaded. One of the things i did was told him (after he'd put me through so much) that if he loved me he shouldn't care what other people thought. And got him to go to the shop for me an buy something (((dressed up))). Well he harped an winged all day, then left, came back, tried to wiggle out of it, then when it was getting dark (less people around) an he knew i wasn't backing down he went, must have ran flat stick all the way (something he doesn't do, normally dordals, or rides a bike) an brought me back the reciept. If only i'd known then what i knew now. But i never laughed (myself being to angry or upset to find amusement) an no one else did, an it proved to him (in a very small way) that it doesn't really matter when it comes down to it. Of course he went straight back to being his image, but the brain ticked a bit. Taping him, an letting him hear himself,- he actually stubbornly wanted to hear it-(told him i was doing it first an after he could blank it himself) was big shock for him, an he was mad (about whatever he could think of ) at me, not to do with that, just trying to pass the buck or change subject, but still that stuck in his mind silently. Another thing also got him to do (at another time not too much at once) was give his friends, (good ones) a letter, fairly early on in the reship) with a list of all his mental problems i wrote, (very brief without much detail, in a matter of fact way) so not too be too much at once, an i knew they wouldn't take it too seriously anyway (bein mentaly stressed themself). Well they had to read it an ring me to let me know they had before he could come back. (I hadn't met them, but listening to a lot was my best friend at the time i used my intuition an crap sifter to know what they were like). Well he only showed a couple, but that was fine, he made the effort so i let him come back. It was great for him because all the time he'd always looked down on people being so perfect himself (false ego), an when they sore he had a few problems it helpd them to open up to him a bit (who wants to tell someone thats so great they have problems an get lectured), an then it started them all to have more meaningful convo's. Best for the whole lot of them. He got feedback, realised it wasn't the end of the world, no1 hated him an they related to him better. After that he showed more people of his own volition, because he sore that it helped him. And finally he just tells people (fragments that sound ok) for himself. And when i talked to 1of his friends for him (in lots more detail) with a lot more confidence after reading your book, and they still liked him(all much to his relief, and was the best one i knew of with the best example to help), now he's the one he rather goes to see, because he gets more honest advice, trusts him more than me at the moment too, an feels more comfortable.

Guess that's all i can think of at the moment, i know how hard it is for everyone out there, it's devastating. I was almost catatonic again on Friday, (having all my thoughts in pretty good perspective)i call it subconscious anxiety. It's when the brain has to much addreneline (shock an fear are meant to be short lived to cope temporarily so the brain doesn't breakdown, like a panic attack. When having a panic attack the brain puts all the trauma in one basket so to speak an moves it to a different part of the brain. Usually about 15 minutes or so an then goes back again. It's like having a power nap so the brain can fix itself subconciously while your not in it, so u don't know what's wrong at the time, your just frieking out). So when too much anxiety an shock hurt, fear etc the addreniline in your brain only lasts a few minutes, an when its too much it turns into a poison (being that your brains nerves etc run through your whole body), an poison your body (temporarily that is, however long it takes to cope, think, get perspective an focus back etc) until u can manage again, even lethargically. It explains comas well, if you cant manage to cope, still can hear think but don't want to wake up u won't, but that's usually from huge shock's at the one time of course. Obviously i'm no doctor an that's very simplified version, i can't remember the technical name's for everything, and that's my summary version, but for anyone experiencing those symptoms that's my analagy of it.

Thankyou so much for your updated version of your book, all the little bits of info count, an the support is extremely great. I still have only got to listen to a couple of your radio shows, so hopefully ill get to catch up on that this week. I did however especially like the one you answered questions not long age to writers, an think when Steve explains his side of the story that is a great example to the 'N's out there (especially the male one's) because i think they find it more hard to believe that someone got better, they like to think that he's still just tricking you or it's all there imagination. And then when he shows his thanks to you (being a female that of course doesn't know anythink) that puts out a really encouraging an strong message. And for the women to hear you say how hurt you were but still persisted gives them (an me) a great deal of strength an hope an feel more sure of themself. Thankyou thankyou thankyou. It's all the really desperate, caring, thoughtful, honest, stubborn people of the world that come up with the most traumatizing to destructive problems cures in the world.

Anyone reading this out there,for the people who can cope an want to good for you it's the hard road but worth it regardless of result's. What doesn't kill you will help you learn mega lots. And for the people who give up (because of the torture mental of physical) i don't blame you either, we cope with what we can when we can. If we can't then we learn to cope better next time!! I'm certain Kim in your life you went through a lot, including post traumatic stress syndrome, or an ex's with troubles to be able to help steve as you did. So never should anyone out there feel like a failure, remember, and learn an be thankful for all experience in life. That's how i've gotton through the worst times in my life, an knowing i can survive the past i can survive whatever life throws in my path, even when i feel like the world is caving in on me. I look to all my strengths, an friends, people in the world that care, an people that care an have succeeded the odd's in similar situations like Kim an Steve, an know there's hope, or I'll die trying if necessary, but so far hope, effort, trying my best an honesty to myself and others has kept me alive through unbelievable circumstances.

As soon as i am financial enough i'll regularly donate money to you an Steve every pay, even if that be a years time!!
P.S. sorry about all my spelling, i'm so used to slang, an abbrieviating that it's starting to be automatic, when i txt people on my phone now if they didn't know me they'd have no idea how to read it, bad habits...

All my thanks your brilliant

Tracey

Hi Tracey,

Hey good work getting him into hospital. That is great! I hope that they start to offer you some better support.

Your strength of spirit and character are going to see you through this I know. The planet needs strong caring people right now who don't just walk away!

I would not worry about the lie detector test if I was you. It is too expensive and I also think, that although it is a good idea you are already doing a very good job of building trust. Once you get to the stage where no matter how much of a tantrum he pulls you can stay calm and say "Hey I don't know how to handle you when you are like this honey, I am going to need to get some help for you because it is really time that we were having dinner (or whatever) and then either call a policeman that you know
or call one of his friends that knows what the deal is and say "Hey I need some help".

You getting really calm and grounded and strong like this (you are nearly there!) and not letting him provoke you into shouting back or getting upset will make him feel safer and trust you more than anything else that you can do.

Steve woke up this morning and said "I had a dream that we were in love" and I gave him a hug and said "We are" and then he said "I had a dream that we lived in a beautiful house" and I said "We do" he laughed and hugged me and said "Yeah!" and then he said "Dreams usually trick you, but now my dreams are real and gave me a HUGE hug." Now I have gained a lot of weight since I stopped smoking and once apon a time he would have been revolted by it, but now he says "I love my big busty blonde, are you really mine?"

You make a nice home Tracey (like I am sure you do) and you decide what is going to happen now. Your guy doesn't have a clue how to live. You need to lead him by the hand and show him. If he storms off and says he wants no part of it well use your magic scissors and stay calm and you be happy and have a nice time anyway and just see how fast he wants to be back with
you where it is safe and warm and where he is known and loved! That little boy of yours is lucky to have such an amazing mum!

Kim
PS. Is there anyone in your area that might serve as a good model of a respectable husband and father that your guy might look up to? Someone who might take him on as a helper or teach him parenting skills or something? My experience is these guys are just craving some older male attention and he would
just lap it up if he had you also supporting him making sure he doesn't goof up.

Dear Kim,

Wow what a nightmare of a few days it has been. The hospital staff were so annoying to get to comprehend that altho he's manipulative an faking alot that i knew that part better than them. I went in there the last time about 11, had just calmed him to almost sleep when the nurse came in an kiked me out (because it was past visiting hours). Well i think over night she learnt a few lessons. They don't get the fact he was sleep walking, not asleep but not awake either. She told me "He's a fully grown man an could look after himself etc etc." I felt like saying do you want me to tell you what this fully grown man would like to do with you if you are dum enough to fall for his crap, but i kept my mouth shut and left. He spent half of last night going out for smokes, and ringing me in paranoya and fear, an finally his phone died an they wouldn’t let him charge it,because then he'd call me an i'd come in. Hence he rang me from a public phone telling me to pick him up or he was leaving. Of course they didn't believe him an thought he was just trying to get my attention, which he was, he was scared to death and past the point of the medication working an sleep talking walking an dellusional past point of any rationalisation they thought they could give him. By then it was 630 this morning, where he'd slipped over hurt himself, still tired an sleepwalking, He'd lost his phone on his adventures, lost a whole day altogether, wanted me to pick him up. So i told him i would an i'd ring the hospital. So i rang, they told me not too worry bla bla he'd be back he'd been coming an going all night. I said yep ok im tired anyway hung up, got my kid up, took my time to be sure, went down there an sure enough he'd had no intention of going back there at all he was wandering aimlessly waiting for me. When i told him they had his medication he was furious. He said he'd been waiting in the waiting room for hours an no-one was serving him and helpin him even tho there was no cue. He had forgotton that he even had a bed there. When he started to really wake up, he thought he'd slept all night. When i walked in there with him, they didn't no where to look realising how wrong they were. I had to convince him that he was ok now i was there an they'd see him soon to take him to the proper section. Well hours later he was put through the mental health section and is there now. He was detained from his own self proof thank goodness.

BIG PAUSE

He just came over, soaking wet, jumped the fence an caught a taxi, an wow, almost re broke his foot again. I'd called his mum earlier, an arrangd to meet her there tomorrow, an she called hosp tonight to let him know.

Told him as always i tell him everything that i'd called her. So told him she was going to call him, so now she'd be worried sick so I was calling to let her know he was ok. Then of course that she wanted to speak to him. He tried to crap but i told him again to tell her how he really was feeling. So he did, she was worried an said she'd pick him up an take him to (at his idea) another hospital. Well i didn't have to look like the big bad for a change, knowing the hospital an cops had my address already, an all perfect timing, his mum came over, then the cops rang me an i told them his mum was coming over, they asked me questions to which i only had to reply yes to (they got my silent drift), and they rocked up just after his mum an STEP dad did. So they followed him in the cop car (he went calmly enuf after he'd been here unanounced an realised that even though i thort he couldn't get out there had been no wild party's an i'd talked to his mum, an maybe i did care an wasn't against him after all). So wow, eventful, maybe ill get some sleep tonight after all!! YAY... And pray that they do there job better now they know what they're dealing with. Naughty boy. I made it clear that i didn't find it funny or clever at all and he'd just made things worse for himself. Although i was worried for him an just glad that he's in one piece.. A worried mother slash girlfriend. An when my baby was so sad when he left he was feeling bad. An he introduced himself to the group today of his own accord, an when asked said he sore it as his own child even though not... Progress, Thankyou thankyou, it's all working, the finer details an confidence sympathy, understanding and encouragement you've shown has made my life so much better.

Went to see someone for myself yesterday, she was useless, i confused her though. I told her how i'd been abused, raped, etc an how scarey things had been and better but how scared i still am, and at the same time i wasn't leaving him an cared an wasn't giving up an no didn't want help financing to move state. Am used to the responses though, have been hearing them for a year now, even every hotline i spent mega money on used to be stumped on how to help me because he was so lethally scarey an would kill me as far as i was concerned, an still am for then and now. So went today to see someone else this morning that she gave me reference too, an pushed for an immediate appointment while i had time for me for a change. He was much more professional an helpful. He tested the water by suggesting i move, and then by saying how do i feel about having to go through all I am for someone that may not change, that may kill me, (bla bla bla). Told him clearly im not moving, or getting rid of him, just not going to happen, told him he is my problem (like you said similar) an i need help to help MY problem child. When he realised that i had a total handle on the situation an knew all his misgivings selfishness, permiscuosness etc from the start, cut through the crap with a sledge hammer, (bein so pissed off already i couldn't even remember the point of going in there, he was in the car on day leave with me, been a total little brat the whole time or in other words total Pig etc, an wasn't in the mood to put up with anymore idiots telling me what they knew i should do. Then he gave me all the info i needed an stepped out my most appropriate plan of action better for me. Was great that now an then some of them actually know what your talking about an believe what you say. Made my effort worth it after almost cancelling because i'm so sick of the people like the chick from the day before!!

An as for you getting "volomptuous" for quitting smoking, you go girl!! I told 'N' i wasn't going to loose weight. I even stopped going to the gym. That was as soon as i had an idea that i was one of his accessories, bling or added decorations of his. I knew better had learnt from my past. An at the time i met him i'd booked $150 hypno to quit smoking, gym 3 times a week(just about all my life), was eating well, happy as a pig in shit with my life for the 1st time ever, was so dam happy. In the past had suffered anorexia as well as everythink else, an had been afraid to get too skinny for along time, because i didn't want the mental state back. An was sure as hell not going to loose any weight (not that i was huge or nothing but just wanted to loose few more kilo), for an arrogant chauvinistic self riteous bastard. So i didn't. If anythink put few more on. I no my own mind, an stuck to my guns that i didn't care what he thought of me, if he didn't like the way i was it was tough shit, an if i want to do something it will be for me, not him. And adamdantly stuck to it. I was due for surgery as well, which i couldn't have unless i quit smoking, (at the time i thought i would when i booked it), an i wanted to be my thought optimum size so it didn't ruin it. Well i gave up all of it, knowing i wasn't putting that sort of pressure on myself for someone else's glory, it had to be my own. (MY head state, won't quit smoking or do anythink els for someone else’s telling me i have too). And he bitched winged an moaned (HYPOCRITICALLY) how much i should change (INTO THE GOLDEN ONE) an it never worked for him, i'm happy with who i am, and he's becoming happy with that too. An asap he's well, i will be finishing my own self mission for ME!!! YAY, its looking closer an closer to that day.

Thankyou for all your advice, have adapted most of it, am trying really hard to keep my temper under his nasty abuse, always have but its easier now with the support an encouragement!!

You can do anything you want to do, you've proven that to yourself already! U don't need luck your a winner!! And hey everytime you don't succeed it's just practise for getting it right the next time!!

An hell, you'll save so much money that's brilliant, good for you!!

Hope my letter made edical sense was in a hurry

From Tracey

Hey Tracey,

Good work! How long are they going to keep him in hospital? You will finally get a chance to get your own life in order now. That is brilliant how you pulled in a whole support team, his parents, police, mental health etc. Great stuff!

Thanks also for what you said about me stopping smoking! It has been very hard and I do feel pleased with myself (-: I had a chest X Ray yesterday so I am crossing my fingers it is all clear.

I will post all our letters on Dear Kim today (I promise) I really think that you are an inspiration. It is great that you have found a good support worker for YOU. Make sure that you keep him! Get him to talk to other people for you when needed about the plan he has helped you put in place, that will cut through loads of red tape.

I always enjoy your letters Tracey, I hope that you get some really restful sleep and give that little boy of yours lots of love and attention (-:

Kim

Dear Kim

it's good your feeling confident about yourself. I think at the 3 month point of quitting smoking is a huge barrier to get through if youv'e got there yet or close to it. That's like relationships, if you get to 3 months normally next make or break is 8 months. Look up some self hypno on quitting, an replace it with water or 5 situps every craving, its getting the cravings to be longer apart that's most important an sticking to your original thoughts that it's all in your head an you don't need a piece of paper that burns an gives you cancer.

Went to see him but i can't visit him till 1.30 now, hes in the back section, detained detained now. So i hope he's OK, hopefully asleep. I can't believe they finally took him in it’s their turn for the crash course!! He would’ve been reviewed after 3 days, an then if he'd been OK he would’ve been let out. The next one is 21 days, an next 3 months. So at least he's safe now. Not the first one i've known to break out so i was sort ov expecting it. I've been through this part many times with other people, feels like this is the easy part now. He's on the mend finally crashed into reality, I've been trying to ease that impact for him ever since i met him, because he had no idea it would come to this. All along told him i forgive him for all the things he's done to me an everyone because it's not worth carrying hate an grudges on your shoulders. That i wouldn't do that or i'd end up like him. And a billion other things while he was yelling at me. Got him a few months ago to write an essay for me on his life story, all the bumps or things that stood out to him. Did a time line with him from birth to now, an got him to fill in all the gaps as I explained how kids think react an feel about things. This brought back an abundance of more memories,and helped him put his life back together in perspective. When he talked about hurtful things, like being cheated on or friends dying etc i put things in focus for him how it really was, an that other people did things for the same reason he does silly things now. To help him understand that nobody's perfect, people do what they do to protect themself from hurt in their own mind an that it had nothing to do with him not being good enuf. Also got him to ask his mum many questions all the time to form life again, which when i spoke to her last night(only for the second time ever) she confirmed he'd been asking her lots of things. So all i can do for him at the moment is keep him feeling cared for an loved an missed and tell him he's getting better. I always told him it gets hard before it gets easy, an practice gets easier every time. So he's coping knowing he's getting better even if he can't quite fathom it yet.

My life so disorganized still, house is a demolished mess, getting better slowly. My neighbour cleaned up my front yard for me a couple weeks ago when she got over being angry with me and felt sorry for me again. So that was great. I wish i could work this computor out better, finally got a printer got ink, printed some stuff out from Sam V book for people to read, an the printer packed up again. Oh well try try again.

Must go an do something cleaning or washing, or me time or or or or all the million things that i have to catch up on desperately. Thanks again!! Your my majic wand i needed!!

From Tracey.

You enjoy your time not having to worry while he is in hospital.

Kim

World of Warcraft Addiction

Fri, 9 May 2008 12:50:21 +1000

I just learned about an alternate world that my husband, a narcissist, has been living in called World of Warcraft (an online game). He is now separating himself from us in order to gain access to this obsession were he can pretend to be whomever he wants and interact with others. I never had a problem with gaming because I figured that it was better than porn, but this game's narcissistic reality is a real danger to our marriages/families and is very different than any other type of computer game. Not only does it feed the narcissistic supply by allowing a perfect outlet to create a false self- the game its self is addictive and has been nicknamed Warcrack or Evercrack. I believe in your mission to help families and I just want others to be aware of this very intoxicating (for narcissistic types) game that is spreading like wildfire worldwide (over 8 million players with a 40% addiction rate according to one expert). Please take a look.

I have included several links that you may find interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwF0KPWIte8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8hfK3RQs2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA1HYXO9GcU

Jess

Hi Jess,

Yes computer games are a huge problem. I cannot believe the damage that they are doing. I work on a computer all day and it provides for my whole family. Imagine if I had an addiction linked to it? It would be like there being a bar, poker machines and a strip show at the office at work!

We need to protect ourselves and our families and marriages from these things.

I am no wowzer, I love funk music and I play guitar and am considered pretty hip and street wise I think. I used to work in the music industry and sing in bands. But what is going on in the world right now is very serious. The powers that be don't have happy families and like the Grinch who stole Christmas they are determined
that we are all going to have unhappy lives just like they do.

I have one ex games addict guy that I write to and he saw the writing on the wall finally when his second wife told him she had found someone else. He is working with our narcissism products and gap finder
and is determined to get his life back on track and get her back. We really need to be warning these guys what they are putting at risk.

Kim

Kim,

Yes, please do (post my letters). We need to help each other out. By the way, I just read that the number of players worldwide is over 10 million now. How scary.

Also, thank you for your work. It took me a while to actually hear your message, and not wait for my husband to change or fix everything. I finally understand that I need to change my actions, and if I change he must react. I'm finally in the driver's seat again! I love my husband and I'm not sure if our marriage will survive, but if I don't change nothing will. No matter what -we will have a life long relationship because of our 3 year old son (who is being diagnosed with aspergers). Thank you for your insight on how to make that relationship easier.

I know your time is short and your heart is big! So, let me know if you/others would find it helpful to see the email that I sent my husband about the Warcraft game and/or share his reaction to it. I think that I could figure out how to forward it to you. Otherwise- Thank you again!

-Jess

Hey thanks Jess, yes I would love to see the letter and his response and I would love to post that on the site as well if you want to change any details so that is OK I would really appreciate it. I might even include games like this in my www.narcissism.com.au front page. I am right with you on how destructive to families they are.

With your husbands obsession with this he might be a touch Aspergers as well? Have you heard about alkalizing and chelation? My youngest son is high functioning and I have symptoms too when my diet is wrong. I would be happy to tell you more about that if you are interested.

Kim

Kim,

Here is the email I sent him about War Craft;

You know that I have always been concerned with your computer gaming, and I am not asking/expecting you to stop because I know that you won't. I am bringing this up because I am especially concerned for you at this point because I was told that the game you are currently playing (World of Warcraft) being given the nickname WarCrack or EverCrack referring to the addiction type quality of this game and according to experts has a 40% addiction rate. Base on the problems with the computer already, involvement in this particular game is especially concerning. I understand that you don't feel you have a problem, and I know that it is fruitless to ask you to stop gaming. I really would like you to be aware of the risks involved in this never-ending alternate fantasy universe. I wanted you to know that I have sent a copy of this email to your family (mom and brother) since I would like them to have the information about! this addictive game-I think it would be helpful since I'm concerned about your nephews playing it.
Love ya! (Inserted links listed in previous email)
His response was to call me and thank me for my concern. He assured me that he was not addicted to the computer, but he could see where it could become an issue for anyone. Because I was worried about him, he would start setting a timer when he plays the game to make sure he doesn't lose track of time. He thanked me for looking the information up and also sharing it with his family who had promptly called a family conference. Yes!
I followed it up with this email and a phone call-
I know you don't think you have an addiction to Warcraft and maybe you don't. But I think do think that there is an issue with gaming. This is a great example of what I see is happening... From ignoring our son while playing...to missing Christmas because you decided to opt out to play games and all of the things in between. I am concerned because I see us in this video. Please take a look at this and let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRh7qHU6LqM

http://www.gameklip.net/video/2389

His response was that he didn't see himself as having a problem. It was his right to play and he could quit if he wanted to but he just didn't want to. He also reasoned that if he didn't game he would just have some other behavior, so why quit? I challenged him to prove me wrong, and stop gaming for two weeks.

The thing that I found interesting with the Tyra show clip was the relationship between the guy becoming a father and the fear that drove him to ignore his problems by gaming. Although, my husband has always had problems with narcissist behavior it really started to surface while I was pregnant/after our son was born. I believe that Rob views our son as direct competition for his resources. I would be interested in any insight you or Steve may have.

Does he have Aspergers? good question....My first instinct is to say no because he can read people so well and can manipulate that knowledge to gain acceptance/get what he wants. Although, he does act naive or shocked sometimes by the results of his actions when it is very clear to others as to what the results will be and that seems very autistic to me. I asked Rob and he said no to Aspergers. I asked him what the difference was and he said although the behaviors are the same he said my brothers CAN NOT see the other's perspective or how their actions effect others. He said he CAN, he just chooses to ignore it or not not look at it because it might conflict with what he wants or how he views himself. Note: My two teenage brothers have high functioning Aspergers and my dad did have narcissistic/asperger characteristics as I was growing up. Again hearing your family's view on any connection between the! two would be interesting to hear.

Rob also shared that he enjoys listening to the relaxation/narcissism cds and that they help him think more clearly. He also was working on the gap exercise while he was home and that was helping him "stop and think". He started to see a counselor who seemed to get it! The counselor was impressed by the gap exercise and was surprised by number of things he couldn't check off, and said it gave him a very clear picture of what was going on with Rob and how he could help both of us.

I know that you recommend a parenting book. I just picked it up and will be starting it shortly. I like the idea of that approach through parenting. Have you heard of The Relationship Development Intervention (RDI) Program? My Dad is a different guy now after working on this program for my brothers. I don't know much about it except that it has taught my brothers skills that they were missing (which is now reminding me of your gap exercise).. My dad would say "I know this is for the boys but- I'm growing inside. I can feel myself stretching. And I'm learning to be flexible." Now that you mention the similarity to Aspergers, I wonder if this type of program would be helpful. Anyways -it might be worth looking into. I'll let you know what I find out if anything.

I would love to hear more about alkalizing/chelation. I've never heard of it. If you have time to send me some info that would be great. Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions. I know that sometimes my writing is clear to me but not to others.
Thanks,

Jess

Hi Jess,

The Relationship Development Intervention (RDI) Program sounds very interesting, I have
not heard of that before and I would love more information.

OK it sounds like you are doing good. I would suggest a few things however.

Rather than leaving everything up to him I do think that you need to set a challenge to him of the tasks that you expect him to be taking on, the parenting skills that you
believe that you both need to be working on and a fair division of household chores, I also think that you need to determine what you believe is reasonable time for you two to have together.

The truth is that he is a father now and not a teenager. He has adult responsibilities and he can argue that he has a right to this and that but at whose expense will it be?

I think that you need to take the gap finder work that he has done and break it down now into the filling the gap
steps from step 13 in the guide. These steps then need to be encouraged.

Rather than saying something dumb (but unfortunately what instinctively comes to most of us until we learn better!) like "If you don't stop playing computer games I will leave you (I know you did not say this BTW but I bet you have been tempted) You could say something smart like

" I am looking for some really solid stuff in a man, I know that becoming parents is a bit of a shock but I think you are up to it and are going to learn to be a great dad, what do you think?" I would then say that you have written out some stepping stones for yourself to aim at in reaching your goals. Let him know what your goals are in 3 month increments. Choose things that will make the most difference in your life and use simpleology to help you get there.

You can then say “Here is some things I thought of for you that would impress me. Why don't you choose a few and see who gets there goals accomplished first?”

Don't push it after that, just leave the paper with him, and make sure it is on some kind of nice thick paper that it is hard to just fold up and ignore. Give him a cheeky sexy smile and say I bet I win! Make sure that on your list is some things that he will be really impressed and surprised if you do and do them. I would also make your responsible things that will make you a stronger person like doing a parenting course, learning a new skill, or overcoming a phobia or addiction. Not just something to make you more attractive like losing weight or getting a tan!

As for the Asperger NPD link I have written a bit about that on another post here and I might add some more to you in a letter soon as I haven't much more time today. You can check out about alkalising and chelation at

http://www.stressmatters.com.au/

and here

http://www.generationrescue.com/biomedical.html

Take care Jess,

Kim

I wish I had found you sooner

Thu, 8 May 2008 10:37:01 +1000

I was in a relationship with a gentleman for 18 years who does these very things.

He is the love of my life but it is over and he is now with a woman 17 years younger than him.

I still love him and when I think its over it never is. He apparently loves having all his women around. He still emails his ex wife, he still calls me and some times shows up at my home.

I miss him. I sure wish I had seen your column a couple of years ago... Maybe we could have figured it out....

Im so happy to see what you said. It is exactly what everyone said; get out go on with your life.

When we were alone things were good and when we travelled it was great. But he needs so much attention from everyone, I was always competing. I am not a competitive woman so it took its toll.

Now Im alone and cant find the heart to meet anyone.   My husband before I met Joe died. So I know what being in mourning is. And this is the same except he is alive and he keeps showing up to remind me of what I lost. That is not right we lost each other by not knowing how to remedy what we had and accept each other and love each other for who we were.

Hi CJ,

Wow I feel really sad for you reading your letter,

You know I get a lot of women writing to me years after they have ended it with a guy who still find understanding and closure from reading “Back from the Looking Glass”, so it still might help you in that way (-:

Also If you do the gap finder and filing the gap exercises (from what you know of him, which must be quite a lot after 18 years) you might just find that you have that edge of how to support him (in encouraging the small steps he should really be working on) so that you CAN compete with these
other women in his life. I doubt that he has much in common with someone 17 years younger than him (I don't see that relationship lasting myself).

He still comes and sees you ... if you try and win him back and it doesn't work at least you tried and letting it go will be that much easier - you never know you might succeed ...

Kim

Depression

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:39:51 +1000

Kim,
Thanks for being a place of hope for others. I knew there had to be a better way than just give up and move on. Good grief if we are all broken how could anyone have a marriage that lasts a life time.

But then there is the reality, the pain, the internal pain is really awful at times dealing with the rejection and cold hearted behavior. One thing that I am really struggling with is the confusion resulting with his denial of the reality of our problems. When I am away from him it seems clear but when I am with him it is as if I get sucked into this crazy distortion of his and can't break it. Any ideas to stay grounded in this situation?

Again thanks for being a resource. Many blessings to you and Steve.

Cathy

Hi Cathy,

That is a very good point and perspective,

I think that people with NPD are just like other addicts. They can't face the responsibilities in their life and so they turn to porn, flirting, new friends who will idolize them, fantasy relationships or fantasies of grandeur instead of drugs to ease the pain (drugs and alcohol may still be involved of course) just like dealing with a heroin junky, it is really easy to say it is impossible for them to get better, but really if a junky has a strong enough family around them they can get better
even if at first that was not their idea to get better.

So I guess what I am saying is, that to stay grounded you must yourself make sure that
you are not running away from the responsibilities of life but at the same time that you are compassionate that your partner is terrified of them. This is why nagging only makes things worse. You need to find the strength and courage to take them by the hand and say come on we are going to clean up this mess together and I won't run away and leave it with you. I will help you until you are more confident to get on your feet and handle your side of things yourself. Someone with NPD can't be told off that they never clean the kitchen or whatever because the truth is that they really don't know how. Steve used to cook but he really only knew one recipe and then of course he had to be the star about it. He put everyone else's cooking down, but really he was a terrible cook. Instead of getting angry and offended anymore I started to see what the problem really was. He wanted to be a good cook, but he didn't know how. So after this I started to give him little lessons now and then, just on basic stuff like making stock or whatever was fun and just came up. He lapped it up. He now cooks 90% of the meals in our house and is a great cook and never puts down anyone else's cooking. He just needed someone in a very warm and friendly way to see what he really wanted to know how to do (that is why he was pretending he could cook before!) and show him how instead of me getting upset that he was putting me down (when he was actually hopeless).

I hope that this helps Cathy! Hang in there,

Kim

Kim,
Thanks for your last email. I really want to be mature, responsible, and gain my spouses respect just as you talk about in your book. Right now however, I am at a place in my life where I am struggling with my own issues of depression. How does that factor in to the mix. I know that I can't expect a narcissistic to be able to be empathic and meet me needs. That does however, present a problem in our relationship because I cannot be the strong and capable one for him to lean on and trust in right now and I certainly cannot lean on or trust in him. He is certainly upset with my glaring weakness that is emerging over the last month as this is an unusual episode for me. Our daughter is graduating from High school, she is our last and we will be empty nesters. This will be a big adjustment as the kids have been a buffer for me. I believe he can't wait to have all of my attention and I really dread that. Does that make sense.

As much as I want to put into practice the things that I have begun to learn from you and Steve and clearly see the wisdom of your experience, I think I need to get out of this depression first because I have no energy to give him anything right now. What do you think?

Cathy

Yes That sounds very sensible! You will need to have a lot of understanding a plan in place
and yourself in a strong and solid position to start on this.

From what I have learned, depression is best treated with exercise. I would suggest that
you start by doing some very slow jogging either outside or at a gym. It is important that you
go as slow as you need to but also that you continue until you sweat and also until you feel
that you could keep going all day. If you are unfit in the beginning this might take 30 minutes.
As you get more fit it will only take 3 to 5 minutes. We call this getting our logs burning, it will
not only beat the blues but also if you rest for the same amount of time that you ran for
after you stop, it puts your body in fat burning mode for two days!

The other great one for depression is fish oil. I take 6 capsules a day and they make me feel
much happier. There have been clinical trials that have shown them to be more effective
than the most powerful anti depressants.

I would also think about joining some classes (perhaps in something that you have identified in the gap finder)in preparation for your new life

I hope these suggestions help,

Kim

Kim,

Wow, I am really impressed that you answered this one with such practical insight. I will work with a counselor on coming up with a plan for my new
life and facing the disappointment of having to parent him to some degree. I need real change in this area b/c all I want right now is someone to care about how I feel, which does not leave much room for how much it will require to re-parent him. This is going to be a long process. Again, thanks.

Cathy

Thanks Cathy (-:

Did you get the audio with the guide, it will help with your feelings, You are right that you will need to learn to look after that yourself for a long while to help him through. Self care and self soothing
are very worth wile skills to learn! He can't deal with your feelings as he is now completely at odds with and at the mercy of his own!

Kim

Yes, I did get the audio guide and just started listening to it just this afternoon. It was soothing. Part of me does not want to face my weakness but I am diving in. I have even taken a leave of absence from work to address my issues. It is interesting that I found your site just when I needed it and while I have the opportunity to work on these things. I got set up with the simple-ology site today also in my desperation and that looks great also.

I passed your web address to another woman who I think will benefit a great deal from your material.

Thanks Cathy, you are doing great!

Kim

Is this just for love relationships?

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:26:07 +1000

Hi Kim,

Congratulations on getting caught up with email! My relationship with my narcissist is over and I suffered with terrible post traumatic stress disorder when I discovered the truth. I had never
experienced such a situation and, thankfully, we were just dating and not married and I am fully recovered now. It took a good 2 years to figure out what was wrong with me and why and then get the help I needed. However, since then I have learned that I am a magnet to these guys because my father and my mother both have narcissistic tendencies. So via this relationship I learned a lot about my dysfunctional childhood. My question is, will your material help me better deal with narcissists and people with these tendencies or is your material strictly for love relationships? I fail terribly at all of these relationships because I seem good "prey" only to discover, because of my childhood, I will not be controlled. All of the relationships end in screaming matches and as painful experiences for me. I cherish people and friendships and feel a lot of pain with these endings; including my parents. I was the "scapegoat" in my household and I cannot get together with my family without constantly being put down as they wait for me to react. Thank you for your work and for believing in someone you love. I have tried and tried, believe me. I loved the guy I dated more than any man, ever.

Janet

Hi Janet,

This is exactly why I had to solve this! I had been with two guys already like this and my sister was NPD too and man was I a sad mess!

Yes it will help you a lot. You will need to read all the steps and let it sink in. You can also look through all the stuff on our support site here

www.narcissismsupport.com

but it will make much more sense after you read the guide. I get women writing to me and they say,
wow I though that I was sticking up for myself before but you made me realize I have been a complete push over. It takes work to get to the stage where you are just not scape goat material anymore but at least with the steps we offer you will be working in the right direction.

Before I got wise I had spent years suffering, too ashamed to really tell anyone while I continued
'doing work on myself' and guess what? It didn't work! If you are NOT going to take on other peoples stuff you must also learn to get support in the right way. As you yourself know these people don't pick on everyone, so this process is all about becoming the wrong person to pick on!

Kim

Kim

I teared up reading your email. It has become my quest in life to educate others in this personality disorder. I suffered so severely and no one, not even professionals, diagnosed me properly and I was totally a walking zombie. It was not depression over a failed relationship, as I was told. I knew it was much, much more and it was, indeed. When, through the Grace of God (I give Him all credit) I found out about Narcissism, I was able to heal from my brokenness, (through months of learning about it) yet I am still a magnet. And even though I know immediately what type of person I am dealing with, the relationships still fail. I try not to allow them to use me and control me and then they get mad and smear my name, etc. Unfortunately, I am now very sick with Lyme disease and believe it is because of my immune system getting so low. I am so sick, in fact, I cannot work so cannot buy too much right now. But I am thrilled I may be able to get some help via your blog site and will always be able to purchase things later. I add my sickness, not for pity, but to tell you about my lack of purchasing power, and also to point out that despite being truly very sick, my narcissistic family still does nothing but put me down. They all have lots of money and I am nearly penniless and all they can do is judge me and tell me what I need to be doing, according to them. It is absolutely unbelievable. And my nother tells me I "act old.." I do not act old, I act sick because I am. I can barely walk. I do have people who love me but they live far away.

Anyway, I educate all people (mainly women) in this personality disorder because I see a lot of abuse. I see more and more of it and many people think I am "nuts" but I do not care. If I touch one heart and this saves one person from the terrible pain I endured, this is okay by me. But I want to better deal with the narcissist, as well, because I may not like them one bit, but I love them.

Thank you, thank you, Kim!! And thank you to Steve, too, because he also had hard work to do, I can be sure.

Janet

Hi Janet,

You can download the guide here,

-------------------------------------------------

I give it away to many people who cannot afford it. I am sure if you like it
you will help us spread the word.

Kim
PS. Thanks for letting me post your letters

Thank you very much, Kim. This is very kind of you. Just today, I emailed three friends about you and the help you offer, and I have several others in mind.

Janet

And, Kim, do you think it will be possible to improve the relationship with my family? My parents are 78 years old and I do not want things like this. But I have chosen to stay away from them because I know their stress is making me sicker.

I had a "penpal" in Germay and I knew he was narcissistic. However, I thought this would be fine; we communicated well; shared a lot and since there was no love interest, and it was long distance, thought there would be no problem, as I said. However, he suddenly got mean and cold and did the infamous smear campaign, (we had mutual friends). I was shocked! I am realizing, just by spending a tiny amount of time on your blog and Steve's that my words, telling this man that I cared for him as a friend, meant nothing to him! Emails were not enough. He began accusing me of "being in love with him" and I think, too, this was projection and it was one of his love fantasies. Amazing! Because I strictly thought of him as a fun, long distance friend from another culture and, toward the end, he accused me of loving him and I could not understand. Now I think I do.